Once again I love you Orf.
And that makes me remember how stupid mass journalists are, in my country they once talked about switzerland's basic incomes thing using that sentence : "Swiss people are payed to do nothing!"
I'm desperate.

Josh “Rex” Govier

The biggest change society will have to face now, is a mental one. We have the technology to provide virtually free abundance too all, but we're still conditioned into our 9-5 grind = money mentality.


If we create a world of abundance with automation and robots – we wouldn't need to "buy" anything or "earn a living", since everything will be accessible to everyone.

martin sørensen

Wassily Leontief, the Nobel Prize winner for economics in 1973, did in the following citation, helps illustrate the conundrum that the Left faces, especially regarding its need for a more militant and imaginative incomes policy:

"Adam and Eve enjoyed, before they were expelled from Paradise, a high standard of living without working. After their expulsion they and their successors were condemned to eke out a miserable existence, working from dawn to dusk. The history of technological progress over the past 200 years is essentially the story of the human species working its way slowly back into Paradise. What would happen, however, if we suddenly found ourselves in it? With all goods and services provided without work, no one would be gainfully employed. Being unemployed means receiving no wages. As a result, until appropriate new income policies were formulated to fit the changed technological conditions everyone would starve in Paradise. "

Denise J

This is something I was speaking with my boyfriend about two days ago. I believe the government eventually will want to just give people money to live, which you stated. I believe it was in their plan from the beginning. giving people a cap on income and allowing them to tell us how much they want to give us. THis is what I forsee now that robots take over


The coming wave of automation is definitely a point in basic income's favor, but without also a corresponding shift in culture (less Puritan work ethic, less hatred of the other e.g. the poor, etc.) we'll see people dying in the streets before any sort of redistribution happens. I subscribe to /r/basicincome and in my opinion, there's a little bit too much emphasis on automation and not enough on the necessary cultural shift that needs to take place.


If most jobs become automated, I'd say that's a great thing for humanity. But it also requires a huge change to our economy/society. We can't continue to value humans based on traditional jobs or their ability to earn an income to survive, in such a world. We're going to NEED something like an Unconditional Basic Income, so that people can still participate in the economy. Of course that is a pretty big change to how our economy works.
I just don't see any other option to address the issues that automation will create. Luckily, automation also creates abundance and greatly reduces the cost of everything, so a UBI system shouldn't actually cost too much at that point, if the prices for everything start dropping. That also addresses the worry about UBI causing inflation, since automation counters that effect. In the end, automation will free up more time for people to do more fulfilling things to do with their lives. I think it will lead to something like a new Renaissance. People will be able to better themselves, by spending more time learning, or volunteering, or turning their hobby into something more productive.. And people will be a lot less stressed out, since they'll have more time to do enjoyable things.

Side note: I'd just like to point out, that while what fast-food restaurants are doing with ordering-kiosks is a useful form of automation, and can save people time.. What grocery stores do with "self-checkout" lines, usually yields a slower, more tedious result. This is because grocery self-checkouts are simply a normal checkout scanner, with a crappy "user-friendly" GUI, that has to cater to the slowest/stupidest customers, so it makes everyone slower. Plus, for some reason they still haven't worked the bugs out of that software, so it frequently needs to be reset by an employee anyway. Rather than a well trained cashier, who knows how to scan your items quickly, self-checkout lines force you to do all the work, and most people suck at that.
If grocery stores really want to properly automate checkout lines, and make things faster.. They should invest in something like RFID checkouts, where each item has an RFID tag on it. You could then fill a cart with bags when you get to the store, take items off the shelves and put them into those bags, then walk the cart through a scanning area, which automatically scans every item in the cart, relatively instantly, instead of needing each item to be scanned individually. Then you just pay and go. There are some places that are starting to do this, but no where near enough, IMO. heh